Vasileios Marinis and Volker Leppin discuss human nature, sovereignty over creation, and preacherly responsibility with reference to Psalm 8. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Christmas, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
A Little Lower Than God (First Sunday after Christmas)
Voiceover Voice:
We are crowned with honor by God. We should behave in a way that is appropriate to this kind of elevation.
Helena Martin:
Happy New Year! This is Chapter, Verse, and Season: a lectionary podcast from Yale Bible Study.
This episode is coming out just after Christmas, so I hope you’re listening to it while lying on a sofa, breathing in essential oils and wearing a rejuvenating facemask—or whatever it is you do to relax.
This week, we have Volker Leppin, Horace Tracy Pitkin Professor of Historical Theology, and Vasileios Marinis, Associate Professor of Christian Art and Architecture. They’re discussing Psalm 8, which is appointed for the First Sunday after Christmas Day in Year A. Here’s the text.
[Psalm 8]
O Lord, our Sovereign,
how majestic is your name in all the earth!
You have set your glory above the heavens.
Out of the mouths of babes and infants
you have founded a bulwark because of your foes,
to silence the enemy and the avenger.
When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars that you have established;
what are humans that you are mindful of them,
mortals that you care for them?
Yet you have made them a little lower than God
and crowned them with glory and honor.
You have given them dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under their feet,
all sheep and oxen,
and also the beasts of the field,
the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea,
whatever passes along the paths of the seas.
O Lord, our Sovereign,
how majestic is your name in all the earth!
Volkin Leppin:
When reading this Psalm there are some verses where I say, yes, absolutely. And there are others where I’m very reluctant saying, can you really say this? Just look on the first verse, “Yet you have made them,” which is the human beings, “a little lower than God.” I don’t feel like just being a little lower than God, I more feel like the words before, “What are human beings that you are mindful of them.” I feel quite far away from God. I feel like someone who doesn’t have the power of God. Who doesn’t have the righteousness of God. So, I wonder why the Psalmist wants to say with, “just a little lower than God.”
Vasileios Marinis:
Yeah, that’s a very interesting point. This is a wonderful song of praise. And I think one of the main themes, if not the main theme here, is to underscore God’s magnificence and splendor. But also say that despite this, God deigned to make humans the agents of his sovereignty on earth, made them important.
I think these are paradoxes that you underscore in verses four and five. In verse four, what are human beings that you are mindful of the mortals, that you care for him. Then on five it says, “yet you have made them a little lower than God.” It expresses perhaps surprise that God in all their magnificence is doing something like that.
Volkin Leppin:
So, you say my feeling of this tangent is already made clear by the Psalmist. Yeah, there is a tangent. But then it’s still following this verse which explains what glory and honor of the human being is. As you said, we are agents of God’s serenity. Are sheep and oxen happy about us having the dominion over them? How do we deal with them? Do we do this in a way beings just a little lower than God should do? Or is it our way to deal with them and making them working for us, eating them, taking them for our own purposes?
Vasileios Marinis:
Yeah. In reading the Psalm, I think, what we need to consider is that it represents perhaps a gold standard. It tells us that God in their magnificence is doing that. And we need to be mindful and behave accordingly. We are crowned with glory and honor by God. And we should behave in a way that is appropriate to this kind of elevation
Volkin Leppin:
Nice reading. I would like to follow you. I’m just not sure I can do that because it does not say you should do it like this, but you are crowned. And you are the one to whom God has given dominion. So, it is more like a description. And I’m wondering if I find myself in this description.
Vasileios Marinis:
Yeah, absolutely. It’s perhaps something to aspire to. It’s something that we ought to do, and we need to do. Even if, I guess, what we see here is God saying, perhaps this is your standard of behavior and that’s what you need to aspire to. Now, it’s your personal responsibility to do that. And if you don’t by reading the Psalm, you need to consider what kind of behavior is appropriate for a being that is created just a bit lower than the angels.
Volkin Leppin:
And when we connect this with Christmas, is it about all of us human beings? Is it about us human beings seeing as God himself would become a human being? And so, would you go so far to say this ideal, which is mandated in the Psalm, is fulfilled somehow in Jesus Christ?
Vasileios Marinis:
Yeah, I think that you’re quite correct. One of the traditional Greek Orthodox interpretations of this Psalm is that this is a Psalm of the Incarnation. That God deigned to become human and live among us. God at the same time, raises the stakes for humans. The incarnation, the incarnation of divinity is such an extraordinary event that raises the stakes for everybody.
Volkin Leppin:
And somehow reading the Psalm like this, it’s a kind of appropriating. There’s a Jewish reading of it which might be completely different to this. It might be closer to the original meaning of this Psalm. I’m always a bit, am I allowed to use the Psalm in this Christological context as our Christian tradition has done for so long?
Vasileios Marinis:
Yeah, that’s a great question. And I think that it’s a difficult question to answer, especially when it comes to scriptures. And generally speaking, a text can, or a reader can interpret the text in a variety of ways that fit their context, their identity, and so on. But I think, just to propose something that addresses your question, I think we should always be mindful of the original context of the Psalm. Where it came from and how our respect for, as far as we reconstructed the original meaning and the interpretive tradition, that comes from the Jewish world.
Volkin Leppin:
So that makes preaching much more difficult. So having a certain message and for this message, different layers of awareness. Being aware of the fact, that’s what I preach for my congregation, for those who have the same faith as I have. But I also have to have them in mind who think different. It might change the way of preaching, promoting a certain message. It is not just giving them as such, but maybe it is more reflecting about the text.
Vasileios Marinis:
Well, I don’t think anybody would argue that preaching is easy.
Volkin Leppin:
That’s right.
Vasileios Marinis:
Yes. And as historians, both of us that deal a lot with texts and the authorial intention and all these great things, we need to recognize that texts have an original context. Now, I’m not sure, and I’m not talking specifically about scripture here, I’m not sure that the original context needs to absolutely restrain us in our interpretation. And there’s a lot of theory out there about reader response to every text. And I think when it comes to scripture specifically, and particularly when it comes to preaching on texts from the Hebrew Bible, some awareness of the non-Christian history of these texts is useful and important.
Helena Martin:
Thanks for listening. And thank you, Professors Leppin and Marinis, for thinking through Psalm 8 with us.
For more Bible study resources, check out YaleBibleStudy.org. Videos, study guides, discussion questions: it’s all free. That’s YaleBibleStudy.org.
Chapter, Verse, and Season is a production of the Center for Continuing Education at Yale Divinity School. It’s produced by: Creator and Managing Editor, Joel Baden; Production Manager, Kelly Morrissey; Associate Producer, Aidan Stoddart; and I’m your Host and Executive Producer, Helena Martin. Our theme music is by Calvin Linderman.
We’ll be back with another conversation from Chapter, Verse, and Season.
Book of the Bible:
Psalms
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New Revised Standard Version Bible
Copyright © 1989 National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
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Host and Executive Producer: Helena Martin
Production Manager: Kelly Morrissey
Creator and Managing Editor: Joel Baden
Assistant Producer: Aidan Stoddart
Music: Calvin Linderman
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Almeda Wright and Kate Ott discuss pedagogy, mixed metaphors, ageism, and spiritual growth in 1 Corinthians 3:1-9. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday after the Epiphany, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Volker Leppin and Vasileios Marinis discuss hypocrisy, reward systems, righteousness, and religious performance in Isaiah 58:1-9a (9b-12). The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday after the Epiphany, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Justin Crisp and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss blessedness, poverty, consolation, and the dangers of transactional theology in Matthew 5:1-12. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday after the Epiphany in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joanne Jennings and Bill Goettler discuss living with both faith and fear in Psalm 27:1, 4-9. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday after the Epiphany, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the story of John the Baptist, a wild and perhaps uncertain character, in John 1:29-42. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after the Epiphany, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss Messianism, prophetic gentleness, and hermeneutical approaches in Isaiah 42:1-9. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after the Epiphany, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Yejide Peters Pietersen and Bill Goettler discuss the spirit of children, the multiplicity of interpretation, and pastoral responsibility at Christmas, with reference to Luke 2:1-14 (15-20). The text is appointed for Christmas Eve in the Revised Common Lectionary.
Mark Heim and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss Christian and Muslim interpretations of the Nativty of Jesus, with special reference to Matthew 1:18-25. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday of Advent, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judith Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss patience, endurance of suffering, and the challenges of family conflict in James 5:7-10. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday of Advent, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss the imagined future of the glorious kingdom in Isaiah 11:1-10 and Romans 15:4-13. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday of Advent, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
AndrewMcGowan and Ned Parker discuss the holiness of divine absence and the anticipation of things to come in Matthew 24:36-44. The text is appointed for the First Sunday of Advent in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Tisa Wenger discuss colonial narratives, indigenous theology, and the downsides of going to a “Promised Land” in Deuteronomy 26:1-11. The text is appointed for Thanksgiving Day (USA), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss Hebrew vocabulary, shepherd imagery, and the legacy of King David in Jeremiah 23:1-6. The text is appointed for the Feast of Christ the King (Proper 29), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss eschatology, aspiration, and ancient Near Eastern curse formulations in Isaiah 65:17-25. The text is appointed for the Twenty-Third Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 28), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
John Collins and Jennifer Herdt discuss poverty, apocalyptic imagery, and economic justice in reference to Daniel 7:1-3, 15-18 and Luke 6:20-31. The text is appointed for All Saints’ Day, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and Greg Sterling discuss redemption, the proper use of wealth, and the strange company Jesus keeps in Luke 19:1-10. The text is appointed for the Twenty-First Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 26, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Awet Andemicael and Adam Eitel discuss shame, redemption, and rehabilitation in Joel 2:23-32. The text is appointed for the Twentieth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 25, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss punishment, free will, and the dangers of metaphor in Jeremiah 31:27-34. The text is appointed for the Nineteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 24, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Jacqueline Vayntrub and Christian Wiman discuss joy, salvation history, and chicken guts in Psalm 66:1-12. The text is appointed for the Eighteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 23, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss trauma, hope, and poetic Hebrew in Lamentations 1:1-6 and 3:19-26. The text is appointed for the Seventeenth Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 22), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss faith, ritual performance, and divine blessing in Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16. The text is appointed for the Sixteenth Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 21), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Justin Crisp and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss capitalism, shrewdness, and the logic of parables in Luke 16:1-13. The text is appointed for the Fifteenth Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 20), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
John Collins and Jennifer Herdt discuss the undoing of creation, fidelity, and false prophets in Jeremiah 4:11-12, 22-28. The text is appointed for the Fourteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 19, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss precarity, God as creator and destroyer, and the potter metaphor in Jeremiah 18:1-11. The text is appointed for the Thirteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 18, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss humility, reversing the status quo, speaking truth to power in Sirach 10:12-18. The text is appointed for the Twelfth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 17, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Christian Wiman and Jacqueline Vayntrub discuss justice, prayer and action, and getting God's attention in Isaiah 58:9b-14. The text is appointed for the Eleventh Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 16, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloë Starr discuss faith heroes through history, triumphant faith, and the role of sin in Hebrews 11:29-12:2. The text is appointed for the Tenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 15, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Greg Sterling and Harry Attridge discuss women in early Christian communities, eschatology, and faith as a matter of the heart in Hebrews 11:1-3, 8-16. The text is appointed for the Ninth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 14, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judith Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss possession, wealth, and covetousness in Luke 12:13-21. The text is appointed for the Eighth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 13, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Tisa Wenger and Joel Baden discuss bargaining, God and Abraham's new relationship, and the righteous of Sodom and Gamorrah in Genesis 18:20-32. The text is appointed for Track 2 on the Seventh Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 12, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Andrew McGowan and Ned Parker discuss Mary and Martha, extroversion, and authenticity in Luke 10:38-42. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 11, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Volker Leppin and Vasileios Marinis discuss poverty, God's expectations, and our responsibilities to one another in Psalm 82. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 10, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss kings, skin diseases, and prophetic power in 2 Kings 5:1-14. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 9, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloë Starr discuss prophetic leadership, sudden loss, and mentorship in 2 Kings 2:1-2, 6-14. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 8, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and John Hare discuss gender identity, ethnic dynamics, and changes of the heart in Galatians 3:23-29. The text is appointed for Proper 7, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss joy, multiculturalism, and feminine language in Proverbs 8:1-4, 22-31. The text is appointed for Trinity Sunday, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Volker Leppin and Vasileios Marinis discuss signs and wonders, Hebrew Bible connections, the promise of salvation, and more in Acts 2:1-21. The text is appointed for Pentecost, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Yejide Peters Pietersen and Bill Goettler discuss love-songs, community, and connection in reference to John 17:20-26. The text is appointed for the Feast of the Ascension, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloë Starr discuss social justice, human failure, and heavenly hope in Revelation 21:10, 22–22:5. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss poetic structure, creation language, and the mechanics of praise in Psalm 148. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Andrew McGowan and Ned Parker discuss whiteness, danger, and comfort in Revelation 7:9-17. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and Gregory Sterling discuss Resurrection encounters and calls to action in Acts 9:1-20 and John 21:1-19. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Mark Heim and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss doubt, trauma, and the value of “Doubting Thomas” in John 20:19-31. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harry Attridge and John Hare discuss faith, uncertainty, and the power of emotion in John 20:1-18. The text is appointed for Easter Day, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Tisa Wenger discuss the construction of stories, Christian supersessionism, and the legacy of Christian storytelling in relation to Genesis 22:1-18. The text is appointed for the Easter Vigil, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judy Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss the innocence of Jesus, divine kingship, and more in John 18:1-19:42. The text is appointed for Good Friday, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
John Collins and Jennifer Herdt discuss enslavement imagery, Passover liberation, and models of service in Exodus 12:1-14 and John 13:1-17. The texts are appointed for Maundy Thursday, in all three years of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Andrew McGowan and Ned Parker discuss community, sacrament, and suffering in Luke 22:14-23:56. The text is appointed for the Palm Sunday, the Liturgy of the Passion, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Tisa Wenger and Joel Baden discuss divine violence, colonialism, and the notion of “wilderness” in Isaiah 43:16-21. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Yejide Peters Pietersen and Bill Goettler discuss reconciliation, spiritual role-models, and what it means to “become the righteousness of God” with reference to 2 Corinthians 5:16-21. The text is appointed for the 4th Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judith Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss repentance, leniency, and divine warnings in Luke 13:1-9. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss inheritance, offspring, and the promises of God in Genesis 15:1-12, 17-18. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and John Hare discuss the possibility of being in relationship with God in Romans 10:8b-13. The text is appointed for the First Sunday in Lent, March 6, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the healing and transforming power of God in Luke 9:28-43. The text is appointed for Transfiguration Sunday, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss forgiveness and the sibling dynamics at work in Genesis 45:3-11,15. The text is appointed for the Seventh Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss Jesus’ blessings and warnings in Luke 6:17-26. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, Sunday, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Jacqueline Vayntrub and Christian Wiman discuss the difference between verse and prose in Isaiah 6:1-13. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss reluctant prophets and God’s will in Jeremiah 1:4-10. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloe Starr discuss the church universal and love as the basis for the exercise of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:12-31a. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss recognizing God in the midst of community and the diversity of gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-11. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss the power of God in Psalm 29. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Awet Andemicael and Adam Eitel discuss the mystery, language and lyricism in John 1:1-18. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after Christmas, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Gregory Sterling and Harold Attridge discuss the humanity of young Jesus and the role of Mary as mother in Luke 2:41-52. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Christmas, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss birth, kingship and signs of God’s redemption in Isaiah 9:2-7. The text is appointed for Christmas (Proper 1), December 24, Years A, B, and C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the Magnificat and our understanding of Mary through the ages in relation to Luke 1:46b-55. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday of Advent (Advent 4), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Sarah Drummond discuss hope, apathy, and why the context of prophecy matters in Zephaniah 3:14-20. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday of Advent (Advent 3), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss disaster and hope, glory, and reversal in Baruch 5:1-9. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday of Advent (Advent 2), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Tisa Wenger discuss messianic prophecy, timelessness, and historic context in Jeremiah 33:14-16. The text is appointed for the First Sunday of Advent (Advent 1), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Chapter, Verse, and Season gives listeners the opportunity to overhear the kinds of conversations that take place in the halls of Yale Divinity School. Each week, professors from different theological disciplines chat about biblical texts from the Revised Common Lectionary. They bring their own interests to the table and hopefully spark new insights into the scripture appointed for each Sunday.