Erika Helgen and Chloë Starr discuss social justice, human failure, and heavenly hope in Revelation 21:10, 22–22:5. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Heaven Down to Earth (Easter 6)
Voiceover Voice:
The antithesis of Babylon is not us building up towards God; it’s God descending, bringing Heaven down to Earth.
Helena Martin:
Welcome back to Chapter, Verse, and Season: a lectionary podcast from Yale Bible Study. I’m your host, Helena Martin. Join us every Monday as two Yale Divinity School professors look at an upcoming text from the Revised Common Lectionary.
This episode, we have Erika Helgen, Associate Professor of Latin American and Latinx Christianity, and Chloë Starr, Professor of Asian Christianity and Theology. They’re discussing Revelation 21:10 and 21:22–22:5. (This is kind of a confusing selection of verses, so check out the show notes for the details.)
The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday of Easter for Year C, and it’s read for you by student Misty Kiwak-Jacobs.
Misty Kiwak-Jacobs:
[Revelation 21:10 and 21:22-22:5]
In the spirit the angel carried me away to a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God.
I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. Its gates will never be shut by day– and there will be no night there. People will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city. On either side of the river is the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, producing its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. Nothing accursed will be found there any more. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him; they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And there will be no more night; they need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.
Chloë Starr:
So the finale, Erika.
Erika Helgen:
Yep. We have the holy city coming down out of heaven from God.
Chloë Starr:
It’s funny, I’m reminded of the hymn, “Jerusalem the Golden,” where the 12th century Bernard of Cluny starts off with, “I know not, oh I know not what joys await us there; What radiancy of glory; what bliss beyond compare.” And I’ve been reading that recently because it was translated by my favorite Chinese theologian, Zhao Zichen, into Chinese in his hymn collection. But to me, endless light seemed more like a prison nightmare or a hospital with 24 hours of fluorescent light. And I can’t quite get into the imagery of everlasting day.
Erika Helgen:
What strikes me when reading this is just the specificity of the details of the description of both the city and also what life and reality in that city is like. And, yeah, I’m not sure: it’s different from what we have now, but for me, as a historian of Latin America and liberation theology, the physical description, but also the idea that the kingdom of God, this new Jerusalem, is very concerned with meeting people’s needs–having the tree of life so that people have food; the river for water; healing, medicine. This is the ideal. This is what God wants. And that’s something that in Latin America, liberation theologians talked about a lot, that God wants a just world, a just city. The new Jerusalem is Jerusalem of justice with abundance for everyone. But we can build that here on Earth. We can start to build–obviously not finish–but start to build that Kingdom of God here on Earth.
Chloë Starr:
Yes. I love the notion of those leaves of plant-based healing for the nations. But as you say, there’s a real tension here because this is not a human city. It’s not a human construct. It’s given. It’s the heavenly city, meaning Heaven-on-Earth, dwelling place of God. So, we’re not going up to Heaven. We’re living in community with God here, and God’s dwelling with us: that is Heaven. So, we’re going to be Heaven on Earth, and it’s this renewed Earth; sort of a renewed, reused, remade version.
Erika Helgen:
But that tension is important, right? This tension between building in the here and now, and the fact that this is a new Jerusalem of the afterlife that’s given by God and not built by man; but, to a certain extent, what also is given is the image of this city, the idea of the city; and that we know that this is the new Jerusalem that God wants. And we can start to build that on earth.
Chloë Starr:
Yeah, I mean, there’s this strange tension, as you say, between it being a God-given, renewed City. It’s not a human building. That is, the antithesis of Babylon is not as building up towards God. It’s God descending, bringing Heaven down to us. And, you know, we both know of all the examples and the histories of the areas we study of these human-built kingdoms. In the U.S., think about the Branch Davidians or others, whereas in China, I think about the Taiping Tianguo the Kingdom of Heavenly Peace; this band of Christians in the 1850s and 60s, Hong Xiuquan ended up thinking that he was—well, started off thinking he was the younger brother of Jesus, and therefore, you know, a son of God, and he went on to build this huge kingdom. He took his band of thousands, in the end, of supporters, sort of military militia, and set up a kingdom in Nanjing. And you know, it nearly ruled and reigned the country, but this fantastical sort of heavenly kingdom ultimately went totally rotten. It started out with all these good biblical precepts and order, and yet it imposed chastity on the masses and strict segregation of the sexes. And yet the rulers had their own harems and lived in the lap of luxury, and it went very rotten as all human built cities do in the end when they try to create a separate Kingdom of God on Earth. Whereas the John version is for everybody. It’s open to all, you know? I love the notion that there are no borders, no walls, no gates. The gates will never be shut. You know, at the moment, we’re thinking of all the shut borders around the world: the Southern border of the U.S., and the migrant flows from your area of the world. And then the COVID-shut borders that keep changing and keep opening. But there’s only day there. It’s open by day. And since there’s only day, it’s open 24 hours.
Erika Helgen:
Yeah. I mean, and that’s the thing: I think this idea that it’s open to everyone, it’s not, even though we have a very detailed physical description of—
Chloë Starr:
The carnelian and the jasper and the onyx!
Erika Helgen:
Exactly. And the size. But obviously, this is meant to be much bigger, but this idea of building a new Jerusalem, a holy city, we’ve seen taken up in Latin America by liberation theology and a much broader social justice platform. But more along the lines of what you were talking about before, also specifically in Brazil, there’s a very famous history of a community called Canudos, which in the late 19th century built in an area, basically from the ground up, out of nothing, a huge community, whose leader, Antônio Conselheiro, called it the new Jerusalem. And it was this idea that this community by living according to this image of God’s new Jerusalem, could bring about a period of justice and peace for everyone.
Now, the interesting thing about Canudos is that it was brutally suppressed by the Brazilian military, the Brazilian government, and has become an image of–even though, obviously, this city eas not successful in ushering in an age of peace and justice–the legacy of Canudos and the idea of Canudos has often times been taken up by people throughout the 20th and even 21st centuries as an example of a movement that is trying to build a new society here on earth that has a connection to the heavenly society. And so you did see liberation theologians in the 20th century, in the 60s, 70s, and 80, think about how religion in Brazil and Latin America has been an inspiration for a new type of community.
But of course, part of the inspiration that comes from Canudos comes from the fact that most of the residents of Canudos were prepared and did die for the community. And so, it was a relatively short-lived new Jerusalem.
Chloë Starr:
So yeah, in the 1920s and thirties, the Chinese Christians were very much following the social gospel movement in other parts of the world and trying to envisage the kingdom of heaven on earth. And it was precisely the kingdom of God that they were building, by thinking about land reform, and education, and literacy programs, and all this social justice work. And as you say, there’s this tension between that being the motivator towards living into that life of bringing justice on earth. And yet, knowing that our version is on earth and isn’t the heavenly Jerusalem. I mean, what I like about this passage in particular is the verses about “People will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations, and even the Kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.” Now, the Kings of the earth are those who’ve been condemned in previous chapters, but here they are coming into Jerusalem. And there are obviously all these debates about how universalist John is being in his vision. But the people bringing the glory and the honor of the nations: so with all that cultural specificity and with all their difference, everyone is going to be there, in new Jerusalem together. We’re not going to be bound by our petty nationalities, or issues of race, or any of the questions that are keeping us so earthbound at the moment. But also, it’s going to be contextualized Christianities. I think sometimes in the U S and Europe, we have difficulty about seeing the cultural context of our own Christianity as being that. We think about other peoples as being, you know, different, or local contextualization, and not realizing that the huge joy of all of our distinctiveness is coming together in the kingdom at this point.
I remember when I was at school–I was probably about 13–and it was the first time I’d ever heard… there was a band that came to our Christian union, of South American pan-pipe players. And I thought, this music was fantastic. And even at 13, I thought, “Wow, that’s a bit like the heaven. We’re going to hear people from all over the world being together and worshiping in their own different ways.”
Helena Martin:
Thanks for listening! Help someone else find this podcast by taking a moment to subscribe, or “favorite” it—different apps call it different things. And thank you to everyone who’s subscribed so far.
You can check out YaleBibleStudy.org for more Bible study resources. And follow us on Twitter @BibleYale to stay up to date on all our offerings at the Center for Continuing Education.
Chapter, Verse, and Season is produced by Joel Baden, Kelly Morrissey, and me, Helena Martin. Aidan Stoddart is our editorial and production assistant, and our theme music is by Calvin Linderman. Thanks, as always, to the Center for Continuing Education at Yale Divinity School. And thank you, Professors Helgen and Starr, for joining us again this week.
We’ll be back with another conversation from Chapter, Verse, and Season.
Book of the Bible:
Revelation
Subjects:
Revelation
Guests
Text
New Revised Standard Version Bible
Copyright © 1989 National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
Credits
Host and Executive Producer: Helena Martin
Production Manager: Kelly Morrissey
Creator and Managing Editor: Joel Baden
Assistant Producer: Aidan Stoddart
Music: Calvin Linderman
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Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the healing and transforming power of God in Luke 9:28-43. The text is appointed for Transfiguration Sunday, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss forgiveness and the sibling dynamics at work in Genesis 45:3-11,15. The text is appointed for the Seventh Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss Jesus’ blessings and warnings in Luke 6:17-26. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, Sunday, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Jacqueline Vayntrub and Christian Wiman discuss the difference between verse and prose in Isaiah 6:1-13. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss reluctant prophets and God’s will in Jeremiah 1:4-10. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloe Starr discuss the church universal and love as the basis for the exercise of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:12-31a. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss recognizing God in the midst of community and the diversity of gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-11. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss the power of God in Psalm 29. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Awet Andemicael and Adam Eitel discuss the mystery, language and lyricism in John 1:1-18. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after Christmas, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Gregory Sterling and Harold Attridge discuss the humanity of young Jesus and the role of Mary as mother in Luke 2:41-52. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Christmas, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss birth, kingship and signs of God’s redemption in Isaiah 9:2-7. The text is appointed for Christmas (Proper 1), December 24, Years A, B, and C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the Magnificat and our understanding of Mary through the ages in relation to Luke 1:46b-55. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday of Advent (Advent 4), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Sarah Drummond discuss hope, apathy, and why the context of prophecy matters in Zephaniah 3:14-20. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday of Advent (Advent 3), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss disaster and hope, glory, and reversal in Baruch 5:1-9. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday of Advent (Advent 2), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Tisa Wenger discuss messianic prophecy, timelessness, and historic context in Jeremiah 33:14-16. The text is appointed for the First Sunday of Advent (Advent 1), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Chapter, Verse, and Season gives listeners the opportunity to overhear the kinds of conversations that take place in the halls of Yale Divinity School. Each week, professors from different theological disciplines chat about biblical texts from the Revised Common Lectionary. They bring their own interests to the table and hopefully spark new insights into the scripture appointed for each Sunday.