Brandon Nappi and Ned Parker discuss balance, grace, and being called to account in Hebrews 4:12-16. The text is appointed for the Twenty-First Sunday after Pentecost, in Year B of the Revised Common Lectionary.
A Big Ampersand (Twenty-First Sunday after Pentecost)
Voiceover Voice:
God calls us to account. God invites us to live boldly and radically. How do we hold those two things together?
Helena Martin:
This is Chapter, Verse, and Season: a lectionary podcast from Yale Bible Study. Join us each week as two Yale Divinity School professors look at an upcoming text from the Revised Common Lectionary.
We’re coming down to our last few episodes here as we come up to the end of another Season after Pentecost. We have a few more weeks of these conversations between professors about a biblical text. And our final episode is a conversation between me and the Creator and Managing Editor of the podcast: Joel Baden. So I hope you’ll stick around for that. And remember that once Advent comes, you can circle back around and listen to episode 1 again. All 170 episodes will continue to be available on our website, as well as wherever you get your podcasts.
For now, this episode, we have Brandon Nappi, Executive Director of Leadership Programs at Berkeley Divinity School at Yale, and Ned Parker, Associate Dean for Institutional Advancement at Andover Newton Seminary at Yale. Both of them also hold the title Lecturer in Homiletics. They’re discussing Hebrews 4:12-16, which is appointed for the Twenty-First Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 23, in Year B. Here’s the text.
[Hebrews 4:12-16]
Indeed, the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And before him no creature is hidden, but all are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account.
Since, then, we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Brandon Nappi:
Ned, I think Christianity is at its most dynamic and maybe its most interesting when it’s holding a paradox. When it’s holding two seemingly opposite messages together. And, you know, I have in my office a big ampersand, the “and” sign, on my wall as a reminder. And I think we see it here in this chapter of Hebrews. On the one hand, we’re getting kind of hard message. We’re being called to account. We’re being called to live in integrity. You know, the way I would sort of translate this for my own personal reflection is, am I living in alignment with the call of the Gospel? Am I living the kind of life of love and compassion and faith that Jesus has invited me to? And of course, the answer is always no, right? It’s always living this totally imperfectly. So I appreciate the kind of hard edge, kind of kick in the pants. Are you really living in integrity on the one hand? Of course, I mentioned the paradox, right? So that other side of the paradox is that we can trust in the mercy and the grace of God that actually empowers us to live more in alignment with the Gospel. And so, I’m really appreciating the paradox here that we get both presented to us. Historical theologian, Michael Himes, priest, a Catholic, Roman Catholic priest, the Archdiocese of Brooklyn I think, he used to say the most interesting word in all of Christian theology is “and.” There’s one thing to say, God is gracious, that’s kind of interesting. It’salso even more interesting to say is that God calls us to account. That God invites us to live boldly and radically. How do we hold those two things together? And I’m fascinated by those kinds of paradoxical invitations.
Ned Parker:
Yeah. Is it a paradox or is it balance? I’m not totally sure. But, I think, I don’t think, I know that I agree with you. The reason I’m pausing and hesitating is that when you talked about having the “and” over your desk, I literally, I got goosebumps. I think every theologian needs an “and” over their desk because I’m tired of, whatever, whoever is speaking about a particular passage, focusing on one thing that fits one perspective and forgetting a much greater context. And this passage, as you have just described it, is a perfect example of a way in which you could either focus on this idea that God is omnipotent and watching over your every move, you know? Or you could focus strictly on grace and land one side or the other. But to think about this in the context of “and” is really extraordinary. I had a faculty member, I had a professor in seminary that once said, never put your “but” where an “and” belongs. And that is to say, every single time you say “but”, use the word “but” in a sentence, you’re negating, no matter what your purposes or intent, you essentially negate every single thing that came up until your use of that word. So, to remember that you can say one thing and then include a second, as you said, paradoxical or balancing thought. And instead of using that word “but” and negating the true intent and purpose and truth in that initial saying, use the word “and”. Put them together. Love it.
Brandon Nappi:
I love that. And maybe I’ll introduce another “and” that I saw in the passage. My first reflection was to think about how God is relating to humanity, but then I was also seeing, so this is my “and”, and I was also seeing the invitation to emulate the graciousness of this high priest in extending mercy and grace to others. And I feel like at many moments in our culture today there is a kind of gotcha mentality. We are waiting for people to mess up. We are anticipating their failure in the least gracious way. And when I think about workplace squabbles, certainly not here at YDS but in previous positions of ministry, so much of the dysfunction could be healed or at least mitigated by the willingness to be gracious with one another and not be so eagerly awaiting folks to mess up and then to seize the opportunity to cancel them in big or small ways. And so, on the one hand, I was really thankful that God is extending me grace. And then I thought, oh gosh, this comes with a kind of call and invitation to be gracious to others. And of course, I’m not always so good at that.
Ned Parker:
Hmm. Yeah, frankly it’s frightening to me the way in which I completely agree with you and this idea of shaming or canceling. It’s frightening to me the ways in which technology that could be used for such profound good, for spreading good true, you know, knowledge, whether it’s through podcasts or otherwise, is instead used to publicly shame people in such ways that it devastates them. Destroys their lives. Starting in high school, when people are shamed to the point where suicidality enters in is, as I said, it’s frightening to me. And I think there should be something put upon our hearts as people of faith to remember that judgment is not ours to convey. That, I understand that we, as human beings, should live by grace. That’s our example. And maybe I’m doing the exact opposite of what I said at the beginning of this conversation, which is to land on one side. But there is a real opportunity here to remember that grace.
Helena Martin:
Thanks for listening. Please check out YaleBibleStudy.org for events, study guides, videos, and plenty of other resources, including a transcript for this episode.
Chapter, Verse, and Season is a production of the Center for Continuing Education at Yale Divinity School. It’s produced by: Creator and Managing Editor, Joel Baden; Production Manager, Kelly Morrissey; Associate Producer, Aidan Stoddart; and I’m your Host and Executive Producer, Helena Martin. And our theme music is by Calvin Linderman.
We’ll be back with another conversation from Chapter, Verse, and Season.
Book of the Bible:
Hebrews
Subjects:
Hebrews
Guests
Text
New Revised Standard Version Bible
Copyright © 1989 National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
Credits
Host and Executive Producer: Helena Martin
Production Manager: Kelly Morrissey
Creator and Managing Editor: Joel Baden
Assistant Producer: Aidan Stoddart
Music: Calvin Linderman
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Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the story of John the Baptist, a wild and perhaps uncertain character, in John 1:29-42. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after the Epiphany, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss Messianism, prophetic gentleness, and hermeneutical approaches in Isaiah 42:1-9. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after the Epiphany, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Vasileios Marinis and Volker Leppin discuss human nature, sovereignty over creation, and preacherly responsibility with reference to Psalm 8. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Christmas, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Yejide Peters Pietersen and Bill Goettler discuss the spirit of children, the multiplicity of interpretation, and pastoral responsibility at Christmas, with reference to Luke 2:1-14 (15-20). The text is appointed for Christmas Eve in the Revised Common Lectionary.
Mark Heim and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss Christian and Muslim interpretations of the Nativty of Jesus, with special reference to Matthew 1:18-25. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday of Advent, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judith Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss patience, endurance of suffering, and the challenges of family conflict in James 5:7-10. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday of Advent, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss the imagined future of the glorious kingdom in Isaiah 11:1-10 and Romans 15:4-13. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday of Advent, in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
AndrewMcGowan and Ned Parker discuss the holiness of divine absence and the anticipation of things to come in Matthew 24:36-44. The text is appointed for the First Sunday of Advent in Year A of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Tisa Wenger discuss colonial narratives, indigenous theology, and the downsides of going to a “Promised Land” in Deuteronomy 26:1-11. The text is appointed for Thanksgiving Day (USA), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss Hebrew vocabulary, shepherd imagery, and the legacy of King David in Jeremiah 23:1-6. The text is appointed for the Feast of Christ the King (Proper 29), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss eschatology, aspiration, and ancient Near Eastern curse formulations in Isaiah 65:17-25. The text is appointed for the Twenty-Third Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 28), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
John Collins and Jennifer Herdt discuss poverty, apocalyptic imagery, and economic justice in reference to Daniel 7:1-3, 15-18 and Luke 6:20-31. The text is appointed for All Saints’ Day, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and Greg Sterling discuss redemption, the proper use of wealth, and the strange company Jesus keeps in Luke 19:1-10. The text is appointed for the Twenty-First Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 26, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Awet Andemicael and Adam Eitel discuss shame, redemption, and rehabilitation in Joel 2:23-32. The text is appointed for the Twentieth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 25, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss punishment, free will, and the dangers of metaphor in Jeremiah 31:27-34. The text is appointed for the Nineteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 24, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Jacqueline Vayntrub and Christian Wiman discuss joy, salvation history, and chicken guts in Psalm 66:1-12. The text is appointed for the Eighteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 23, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss trauma, hope, and poetic Hebrew in Lamentations 1:1-6 and 3:19-26. The text is appointed for the Seventeenth Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 22), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss faith, ritual performance, and divine blessing in Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16. The text is appointed for the Sixteenth Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 21), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Justin Crisp and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss capitalism, shrewdness, and the logic of parables in Luke 16:1-13. The text is appointed for the Fifteenth Sunday after Pentecost (Proper 20), in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
John Collins and Jennifer Herdt discuss the undoing of creation, fidelity, and false prophets in Jeremiah 4:11-12, 22-28. The text is appointed for the Fourteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 19, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss precarity, God as creator and destroyer, and the potter metaphor in Jeremiah 18:1-11. The text is appointed for the Thirteenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 18, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss humility, reversing the status quo, speaking truth to power in Sirach 10:12-18. The text is appointed for the Twelfth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 17, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Christian Wiman and Jacqueline Vayntrub discuss justice, prayer and action, and getting God's attention in Isaiah 58:9b-14. The text is appointed for the Eleventh Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 16, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloë Starr discuss faith heroes through history, triumphant faith, and the role of sin in Hebrews 11:29-12:2. The text is appointed for the Tenth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 15, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Greg Sterling and Harry Attridge discuss women in early Christian communities, eschatology, and faith as a matter of the heart in Hebrews 11:1-3, 8-16. The text is appointed for the Ninth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 14, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judith Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss possession, wealth, and covetousness in Luke 12:13-21. The text is appointed for the Eighth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 13, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Tisa Wenger and Joel Baden discuss bargaining, God and Abraham's new relationship, and the righteous of Sodom and Gamorrah in Genesis 18:20-32. The text is appointed for Track 2 on the Seventh Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 12, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Andrew McGowan and Ned Parker discuss Mary and Martha, extroversion, and authenticity in Luke 10:38-42. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 11, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Volker Leppin and Vasileios Marinis discuss poverty, God's expectations, and our responsibilities to one another in Psalm 82. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 10, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss kings, skin diseases, and prophetic power in 2 Kings 5:1-14. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 9, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloë Starr discuss prophetic leadership, sudden loss, and mentorship in 2 Kings 2:1-2, 6-14. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 8, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and John Hare discuss gender identity, ethnic dynamics, and changes of the heart in Galatians 3:23-29. The text is appointed for Proper 7, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss joy, multiculturalism, and feminine language in Proverbs 8:1-4, 22-31. The text is appointed for Trinity Sunday, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Volker Leppin and Vasileios Marinis discuss signs and wonders, Hebrew Bible connections, the promise of salvation, and more in Acts 2:1-21. The text is appointed for Pentecost, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Yejide Peters Pietersen and Bill Goettler discuss love-songs, community, and connection in reference to John 17:20-26. The text is appointed for the Feast of the Ascension, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloë Starr discuss social justice, human failure, and heavenly hope in Revelation 21:10, 22–22:5. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss poetic structure, creation language, and the mechanics of praise in Psalm 148. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Andrew McGowan and Ned Parker discuss whiteness, danger, and comfort in Revelation 7:9-17. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and Gregory Sterling discuss Resurrection encounters and calls to action in Acts 9:1-20 and John 21:1-19. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Mark Heim and Abdul-Rehman Malik discuss doubt, trauma, and the value of “Doubting Thomas” in John 20:19-31. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday of Easter, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harry Attridge and John Hare discuss faith, uncertainty, and the power of emotion in John 20:1-18. The text is appointed for Easter Day, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Tisa Wenger discuss the construction of stories, Christian supersessionism, and the legacy of Christian storytelling in relation to Genesis 22:1-18. The text is appointed for the Easter Vigil, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judy Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss the innocence of Jesus, divine kingship, and more in John 18:1-19:42. The text is appointed for Good Friday, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
John Collins and Jennifer Herdt discuss enslavement imagery, Passover liberation, and models of service in Exodus 12:1-14 and John 13:1-17. The texts are appointed for Maundy Thursday, in all three years of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Andrew McGowan and Ned Parker discuss community, sacrament, and suffering in Luke 22:14-23:56. The text is appointed for the Palm Sunday, the Liturgy of the Passion, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Tisa Wenger and Joel Baden discuss divine violence, colonialism, and the notion of “wilderness” in Isaiah 43:16-21. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Yejide Peters Pietersen and Bill Goettler discuss reconciliation, spiritual role-models, and what it means to “become the righteousness of God” with reference to 2 Corinthians 5:16-21. The text is appointed for the 4th Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Judith Gundry and Adam Eitel discuss repentance, leniency, and divine warnings in Luke 13:1-9. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Eric Reymond discuss inheritance, offspring, and the promises of God in Genesis 15:1-12, 17-18. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday in Lent, in Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Harold Attridge and John Hare discuss the possibility of being in relationship with God in Romans 10:8b-13. The text is appointed for the First Sunday in Lent, March 6, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the healing and transforming power of God in Luke 9:28-43. The text is appointed for Transfiguration Sunday, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss forgiveness and the sibling dynamics at work in Genesis 45:3-11,15. The text is appointed for the Seventh Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss Jesus’ blessings and warnings in Luke 6:17-26. The text is appointed for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, Sunday, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Jacqueline Vayntrub and Christian Wiman discuss the difference between verse and prose in Isaiah 6:1-13. The text is appointed for the Fifth Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss reluctant prophets and God’s will in Jeremiah 1:4-10. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Erika Helgen and Chloe Starr discuss the church universal and love as the basis for the exercise of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:12-31a. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss recognizing God in the midst of community and the diversity of gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-11. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss the power of God in Psalm 29. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Epiphany, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Awet Andemicael and Adam Eitel discuss the mystery, language and lyricism in John 1:1-18. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday after Christmas, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Gregory Sterling and Harold Attridge discuss the humanity of young Jesus and the role of Mary as mother in Luke 2:41-52. The text is appointed for the First Sunday after Christmas, Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Sarah Drummond and Joel Baden discuss birth, kingship and signs of God’s redemption in Isaiah 9:2-7. The text is appointed for Christmas (Proper 1), December 24, Years A, B, and C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Felicity Harley-McGowan and Bruce Gordon discuss the Magnificat and our understanding of Mary through the ages in relation to Luke 1:46b-55. The text is appointed for the Fourth Sunday of Advent (Advent 4), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Sarah Drummond discuss hope, apathy, and why the context of prophecy matters in Zephaniah 3:14-20. The text is appointed for the Third Sunday of Advent (Advent 3), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Peter Hawkins and Eric Reymond discuss disaster and hope, glory, and reversal in Baruch 5:1-9. The text is appointed for the Second Sunday of Advent (Advent 2), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Joel Baden and Tisa Wenger discuss messianic prophecy, timelessness, and historic context in Jeremiah 33:14-16. The text is appointed for the First Sunday of Advent (Advent 1), Year C of the Revised Common Lectionary.
Chapter, Verse, and Season gives listeners the opportunity to overhear the kinds of conversations that take place in the halls of Yale Divinity School. Each week, professors from different theological disciplines chat about biblical texts from the Revised Common Lectionary. They bring their own interests to the table and hopefully spark new insights into the scripture appointed for each Sunday.